Showing posts with label DANNA. Show all posts
Showing posts with label DANNA. Show all posts

Friday, 28 December 2012

GOALS (a 2012 summary) and a Blog of the Year

With the end of the year so close, it's time for me to reflect on what I achieved/did not achieve in 2012. After 2011's goal blitz, I was feeling pumped this year, but I didn't quite live up to 2011's high standards. Don't get me wrong, though - I'm perfectly fine with it! I just didn't get a perfect score this year. ;) Anyway, let's break it down, referring to my 2012 Goals page and also my 52 weeks of tasks page:

Failures:

  • NaNoEdMo - I was travelling for a bit of this month, but still, I failed!
  • Writing one book review each month - I missed November
  • Attending one yoga/body balance class per week
  • Doing a beach walks on Saturdays/Sundays - failed this particularly as the year came to an end.

Successes:

  • Read 43+ books in 2012 - my goal was at least 43
  • Read The Catrina Chronicles stories up to date (though as of now I am behind again)
  • Wrote and recorded 52 songs for 2012's Chrysalis Experiment
  • Finished both 2011's NaNo novels, DANNA and VICTORIOUS
  • Hit 50k in BuNoWriMo 2012 with IVY NIGHT - though the draft is not finished
  • Won NaNoWriMo 2012, rewriting DAPHNE
  • Posted one Globetrotter post per month
  • Did a preliminary read-through/edit of FIRE (had no recollection of this till coming to write this post. ha)
  • Sorted the equivalent of 100 photos a week
  • Wrote the equivalent of 1k of new material each week, not counting BuNo and NaNo projects (worked on DANNA and SUNDOWN II for this)
  • Reviewed all 52 Chrysalis stories, except 2 that were DANNA excerpts

"Somewhere in between"s:
  • I did read 9 eBooks from my writer friends, but not always the books I had on the original list. I kept swapping really long books for short novella-length stories (with no e-reader, it's not easy reading eBooks!)
  • Complete edit of DAPHNE - I do count this as an achievement, but it was actually more of a total rewrite, and I didn't do what I originally wanted and put more of Daphne's mother's history into the plot
  • As of this post, I will have written the equivalent of at least one post a week this year. But I'm pretty sure I went more than 7 days between posts at least once this year.

Extra achievements:
  • Finished my rewrite of SUNDOWN, which was not on my goals list anywhere, but which I made use of in the 1k of new material per week goal on my "52 tasks" chart.


Aaaand that's a wrap, folks! But what about next year? Yeah, I've got plans, and I'll talk about 2013 goals in a few days... :)




In other news, the lovely Deniz Bevan received the Blog of the Year Award, and chose to pass it onto me and Laurel Garver. I feel very honoured to have received this award, so thank you Deniz! The official rules of this award are:


  1. Select the blog(s) you think deserve the Blog of the Year 2012 Award
  2. Write a blog post and tell us about the blog(s) you have chosen – there's no minimum or maximum number of blogs required – and present them with their award
  3. Please include a link back to this page Blog of the Year 2012 Award and include these rules in your post (please don't alter the rules or the badges!)
  4. Let the blog(s) you have chosen know that you have given them this award and share the rules with them
  5. You can now also join our Facebook group – click like on this page Blog of the Year 2012 Award Facebook group and then you can share your blog with an even wider audience
  6. As a winner of the award please add a link back to the blog that presented you with the award and then proudly display the award on your blog and sidebar... and start collecting stars...


The people I'm going to pass this onto are:
  • Hart Johnson at Confessions of a Watery Tart, whose posts are often entertaining but also tackle the tough issues many people are too scared to mention.
  • Jordan McCollum, who doesn't tend to get a huge amount of comments on her blog but who still gives a whole lot to the writer blogger community with her very helpful posts.
  • Michael Atkinson at Hypothetically Writing, whose little snippets of fiction shared throughout the year have brought delight to many. Michael's creative wit is, in my opinion, unparalleled, and he also makes a great bloggy friend!

Sunday, 29 July 2012

I've been horribly busy and it ends now!

Here's a photo I ruined tonight (lost the original)
while trying to figure out the new iPhoto.
Lately, life has been a little bit crazy. I've had family visiting, and I've been travelling. And in the last week, for various reasons (including a *gasp* 32nd birthday!), I haven't had a single night totally at home. Thankfully things should calm down now, 'cause though I love my friends and family (and...work?), I sure do crave my "me" time when I don't get enough of it.


I'm also currently grappling with the disappointing reality that is my shiny new MacBook Pro. Okay, I'm not disappointed by the laptop itself - not at all; it's delightful...except when I mess with permissions and suddenly can't find any of my files in Finder - but I'm very disappointed with iPhoto. On my old laptop it was at least serviceable, and I could at least find my photos when I searched for them on my computer. In this latest version of iPhoto, it seems they're just not having that. But I won't rant anymore, 'cause it's pretty boring.

I'm still working on my rewrite of SUNDOWN, and enjoying it a lot. But I haven't done much in this last week of madness. Hopefully from here on in I won't have any more weeks where none of my evenings are entirely my own. I do hope to get to work on a first revision of DANNA, 'cause I think it's one of my more promising works.


In recent times The Smashing Pumpkins brought out a new album, Oceania, and kicked off a tour (I attended the show in my town this Thursday just gone). I've been listening to Oceania a lot. But for the last few days I've been newly addicted to a song by Lacuna Coil called "Daylight Dancer". It's from their album Comalies, which apparently is coming up on its 10 year anniversary. There's talk of a tour where they play the album in its entirety. I'd love to see that show, though I'd prefer to see a show where they played the entirety of the previous album Unleashed Memories live. ;)



Wednesday, 18 July 2012

Hookers & Hangers pt.2 (the Hangin' part)


It's time for part 2 of the Hookers & Hangers Blogfest, hosted by the ladies at Falling For Fiction. Today we're sharing hangers (last lines of chapters)! I don't think I've ever before paid this much attention to my ending lines (or even my beginning ones). First lines are crucial - this lesson has certainly been driven home. But studying these lines out of context, all on their lonesome, has given me a new perspective.

The aim of any last line is, of course, to keep the reader hangin' on for dear life. To make them hungry for more. I'm not sure that my hangers below do that, but I guess that's up to the reader!

I've chosen last lines from chapters of DANNA, as I did with my first lines, but not necessarily from the same chapters. Here they are:

  1. That way lies danger. And that’s the way I’m going.
  2. Disturbed, I turn back to the window and press my face against it, dying for fresh air and open spaces.
  3. For the first time in over a year, I wish my mother would haunt me.
  4. Now that’s one hell of a daydream.
  5. I think she was onto something and it got her killed.
  6. More fun times I have certainly known.
  7. Losing balance, falling, and vomiting up everything I ever ate.
  8. Then he’s gone, and I’m alone with my shitty thoughts.

Now, I'm going to get around to reading some more people's last lines in just a bit (as well as the first lines I haven't yet checked out), but first I want to say something totally unrelated to the rest of this post. If I were a robot (see image below), maybe I would have had more of a chance of figuring out what's in that first image. Even when I opened the image in a new window, I saw no extra detail. See why I get annoyed with captchas?


Tuesday, 17 July 2012

Hookers & Hangers Blogfest (sounds rude doesn't it?)


I'm fashionably late for this, as I forgot it started yesterday...ha. Silly me. Anyway, I guess this way I'm more 'in tune' with my northern hemisphere pals, for many of whom it may still be the 16th of July...only just! Anyway, this is such a cool idea for a blogfest. Here is what it's all about:


We all know how important those first and last lines are in every chapter. This blogfest will hopefully get your HOOKERS and HANGERS polished making it impossible for readers to put down your book and leaving them begging for more! 
On July 16th, post the first sentence from each chapter. 
On July 18th, post the last sentence from each chapter. 
Post as many as you like!  
We will be judging everyone’s first three HOOKERS and first three HANGERS. We'll each pick two winners (MOST ENTICING HOOKER and MOST IMPOSSIBLE HANGER) making a total of ten winners! Winners will receive a 10 page (double spaced) critique and a Friday Spotlight on FFF! - Hope Roberson

So, here are my hookers...errr...yeah, you know what I mean (these are from my rough draft of DANNA, one of the novels I started last year for NaNo):


  1. Eyes to the front.
  2. First she faints, drawing all that attention to herself.
  3. Dreaming of Mack Wilson is not a good sign.
  4. “Your girlfriend is stalking me.”
  5. Once he’s done lying to Melinda, and I’m done caring about what he sent to her—did he tell her I’m crap in bed?—we settle into two chairs facing each other over one of the small classroom desks.
  6. I don’t need a capture chamber this time.
  7. The marshy air fills my lungs like rising damp.
  8. It happens at night, when the world is so quiet I can hear every thought whirling in my head.

Friday, 13 July 2012

Permission to fail

In 2011, I set myself some rather hefty goals. I achieved every single one of them. It was a hard push towards the end of the year to get everything done, but I did it! And it felt good. This year, I decided that if I could do all that stuff in 2011, I could sure do a similar amount in 2012. But this year I've found that, all too often, life has got in the way.

I'm still achieving some things, I suppose, but I'm behind in most of my goals, and it's going to take quite some effort to catch up. I know I can do it, but I've also realised this year that if I fail at some things, it's not the end of the world. I suppose I've given myself permission to fail, here and there. I have failed, here and there - like with NaNoEdMo, dismail failure there. I don't really want to take that too far, though...'cause who wants to feel okay with becoming a slacker?

Perhaps instead of working on my goals,
I'll just stare at this photo for a while...
Ahhh, Australian winter!
So far in 2012, I've accomplished the following:


  • Preliminary read through/edit of FIRE
  • Write 50k for BuNoWriMo 2012
  • Finish off NaNo 2011 novel #1 (DANNA)

But I still have to do the following:

  • Finish off NaNo 2011 novel #2 (VICTORIOUS)
  • Win NaNo 2012
  • Rewrite DAPHNE from scratch (I am thinking I'll probably use November to do this one)
  • Revise all Chrysalis stories (I'm only up to #11...yikes!)

Amongst other miscellaneous things (photo sorting, blog posting, song writing, etc.).

But what am I doing instead? Working on my rewrite of SUNDOWN. It's fun, it's exhilarating, I love it. I guess I should give myself permission to do what I love, instead of what I said at the end of 2011 I would do. Right? But I'm one of those weirdos who really wants to do what she said she'd do, even if it's a little bit akin to watching grass grow.

How's this year shaping up for you so far?

Wednesday, 7 March 2012

First goal victory of the year!

I finished one of the year's tasks last night (or was it the night before?), that being a rough draft of last year's NaNoWriMo novel, DANNA. That tentative title comes from the name of the main female character, Danna Karlsson. That often seems to be the way I title my novels-in-progress.

Now that DANNA is done and dusted, it's time to move onto completing my second NaNo 2012 novel, VICTORIOUS. Nope, there are no actual people in that one called Victorious. Rather it's the name of the space ship in the story. Do you think space ships count as "people"?

I've also started a casual-ish rewrite of SUNDOWN, cleverly referred to as SUNDOWN II. I'm really enjoying the writing so far, and while I couldn't help myself and had to jot down some notes for a plan (this from me, a notorious pantser from way back!), I don't feel 'hemmed in' yet. Maybe it's because I've already written the damn novel once, and feel quite at home in the world.

Elsewhere, somebody (argh, I can't remember who it was...I know I left a comment on their blog post though!)  (it was Ruthie!!) mentioned that NaNoEdMo has begun, and...I'm meant to be doing it! Today I see that the NaNoEdMo site has been attacked, and is down. Boo to that! I can still report on my revision status for the year, though - I'm working on FIRE, and so far I have got the word count down from 146k to 138k. It needs to be 95k.

Now, to conclude...how are you? How are your goals coming along? Feeling inspired? Needing chocolate? I can tell you I'm having at least a glass of full strength champers this weekend.

Friday, 13 January 2012

2012 goals so far


I've got a huge playing card collection...this is one of my packs!
(I collect them while travelling, you see)

This year, I've got my usual Goals page, but I also did up this chart (inspired by Ruthie at Live, Love, Laugh, Write! and her spreadsheet) that helps me keep track of my weekly goals. They're not all writing goals, but here's a rundown on them anyway:

  • WIP chapter review - I'm working on FIRE, and I've edited two chapters which have merged into one. I've cut out a few words, but I'm already thinking of the next round of revisions where I may chop off many thousands of words from the start (as happened with SUNDOWN revisions). FIRE sure as heck needs some slash 'n burn. This round though, I'm taking it easy, to refamiliarise myself with the story.
  • Chrysalis story review - I've revised two so far. One of them I'm shelving, but I'll keep working on the other in the hopes of someday submitting it somewhere. The latter started out at about 3.7k, and is now over 5k.
  • Read Catrina story - Catrina is a character of Michael's creation (Michael was a participant in Chrysalis last year). He wrote many instalments of the Catrina (formerly Caitlin) saga, and somewhere along the way, I fell behind and stopped reading them. So far this year I've read two!
  • Yoga classes - I skipped the first one solely due to not having any cash at all and being totally broke. Too much sharing? *Blush* But I went to yoga this week and got stretched to within an inch of my life. haha. Pigeon Pose was quite an eye-opener...
  • Beach walks - I do these on the weekends. They're 4km walks followed by a glorious swim in the beautiful ocean. Got to love my home town for its beaches!
  • Write song - So far I've written one, but haven't got to this week's yet. However, I have the entire weekend to work on it so I'm not worried. My goal this time is to write a rockin' song instead of yet another melancholy one (I've written a lot of melancholy stuff in the last few years).
  • WIP 1000 words - Generally I've written about 1.5k per week. I'm working on DANNA, one of last year's NaNo novels). I'm mostly happy with my progress so far, but I also know that part of the story is weak, so I'll have to look at improving that later.
  • Sort 100 photos - I'm well on top of this, having sorted way more than 100 photos. But the hard part of this really hasn't begun yet, scared to say!
  • Monthly goals (Travel post, Book review) - I have not done either of these yet. Better get cracking!
In other news, I got some awards - THANKS people! - and will address those at some point soon. But also, check out my Blogfests, Etc. page for some cool upcoming activities!

How's 2012 going for you guys so far?

Wednesday, 30 November 2011

Hobblin' across the NaNo finito line


OH. my. GOSH. It's over. I am about to start crying with gratitude. Almost, but not quite. Instead I'll just heave another sigh of relief (or twenty...) and report that my final word count for both novels is 100,827. That is a Scrivener (for Mac, if it matters) word count. I just validated my novel on the NaNo site and the word count there is...100,018. WOW. That's uncomfortably close to less than 100k. Maybe I should tack on a few more words, just to create some kind of buffer? haha. No, I'm not that desperate.

But anyway, to break it down a bit more, here are the word counts as they stand (keeping in mind that neither is finished):

DANNA: 50,606
VICTORIOUS: 50,221

Now I'm going to go and stare at a wall. A very big wall. For a very long time. Or, well, the next hour or so before it's bedtime. If it wasn't a school night, I'd be having another glass of wine. Then again, maybe I will anyway.

On iTunes, a Dream Theater song is playing. "The Count of Tuscany". It runs to 19:16 minutes. I do believe this is my first listen.

Tuesday, 29 November 2011

NaNo - home stretch



I'm anticipating some serenity in December (see above photo), once NaNo is over. That's not the right November spirit, right? But my spirit is tired and needs a nap! Thankfully, we are on the home stretch! Before I give today's word count update, I want to clarify things for Deniz (and anyone else who's confused):

This month I've been writing two novels, both of which were started from scratch as part of NaNo 2011. The first novel, DANNA, is a YA paranormal and will probably be finished a lot more easily than the second, VICTORIOUS, which is sci-fantasy. Not sure on the acceptable word counts for sci-fantasy novels, but considering the 'fantasy' aspect I figure they're expected to at least be longer than 50k? hehe

Now...a word count update: last night's session got me to 94,666 across both novels. 5,334 words to go until I hit 100k. It doesn't feel like a huge deal, because I've done it before, and easily. But this year has felt especially like a hard slog, for reasons I don't quite get. Perhaps the challenge was actually planning on 100k, instead of just 'accidentally' ending up with it? (Remember, I'm a notorious pantser!)

Monday, 28 November 2011

It's Day 28!



Last night I reached 90,873 words, after writing 7712 (I thought it was over 8k, but the word count API tells me differently) to catch up on all the days I had missed writing the full required amount. I have notes throughout my manuscript for VICTORIOUS that say "needs filling", so I can easily find the parts I have yet to write out. So far with this novel, there are bits I love and many more bits I don't love. But that's to be expected! I haven't touched DANNA since Day 16 began, except for at the end of Day 16 when I had already written my quota for VICTORIOUS and added a few more words to DANNA.

It's pretty well confirmed that neither novel will be finished by December. And right now I am listening to Magic Dirt, a beautiful song called "Smoulder".


Wednesday, 16 November 2011

Hello Day 16!



There I am at the beach, with my broken iPod touch and my pink Toyota hat (it came with my Yaris, wheee!). Also, my pink headphones (they're the kind you can change the covers on, so I have a black and a white pair of coverings too). And you can see my wondrously ordinary camera in the reflection too.

Anyway... Today is the day I begin writing VICTORIOUS (yesterday I reached 50k in DANNA, and yes that is a working title...they both are). I have a page of notes for VICTORIOUS and that's about it. Part of me feels really tired, and yet I'm also excited! This is gonna be a good one. And my first real attempt at a sci-fi/fantasy crossover. Wheee!

I'm feeling good today. Happy! And I like it!

Monday, 14 November 2011

Day 14 ends, and my keyboard gives me crap

My laptop's keyboard is being MIGHTILY ANNOYING tonight. It's making most things rather difficult to type. It's doing this thing where it highlights text and deletes it and the arrow keys are on the fritz and it's all just annoying! Suffice it to say that writing my last few thousand words was a big pain in the butt. But I got there and I'm now sitting on 48,626 words.

I'm calling it a day (or rather, a night) and will get the last 1,374 words written tomorrow during lunch hour.
And if I don't get them entirely written then, I will finish them off after work, before heading off to dinner out. After that it will be Day 16, and time to start on novel number two, tentatively titled VICTORIOUS.

I must say, this is the first year in a while that I'm rather eager for NaNo to be over, in fact I'm almost dying for it to be over. I want my afternoons and evenings entirely free from commitment so I can do as I please, as my whimsy takes me, as I most heartily desire. But until November ends, that ain't gonna happen. Pity I keep finding new ways to occupy my time that don't involve writing. Not ideal at a time when you're trying to write 2 novels in 30 days. But oh well, it happens I guess.

Hope everyone else is going well with their goals, NaNo-inspired or otherwise! Thank you for all the blog visits lately. I have been working on reciprocating but if I haven't got to you yet, never fear - I will!

Saturday, 12 November 2011

And a 40,106 for Day 12




That's the book I'm reading right now. It's one of those I bought from a book sale at the university where I work. I must've got it on sale for $5 or something. For the record, it's a tiny book, as in small format and compact and cute. Which is why it makes me SO MAD that it's officially for sale from its publisher's site at $27.95!!! Books are so ridiculously expensive in this country that it makes me utterly boiling mad.

But let's talk about NaNo. I feel the need to take this NaNo thing one day at a time! When I think about the fact that I'm not even halfway through, that I have an entire new story to start (one that I am going to love, though, so I'm not complaining) I feel a little bewildered. I also haven't done this week's Chrysalis story yet. But to be honest, I'm trying to ignore that!

Friday, 11 November 2011

33,700 or something


Oh my! I forgot to post yesterday. I have failed NoJoMo! But at least it wasn't an official goal. ;) My word count in Scrivener is something like 33,700. Over the count I had to get to, anyway. In Word it's 33,533. I think that is still over the required count. Right now, my writing sessions feel like pretty hard slogs. This weekend is kind of full too, so I'm going to have a hard time getting any momentum. But I'll do what I can, even if it's the bare minimum, and be happy with that.

I didn't mention this yet, but I decided to add Mack's point of view to the story. So there are sections from his point of view, as well as from Danna's. It's kind of cool. His sections tend to be much shorter than hers, which in my experience can be quite typical of boys vs. girls. I think it fits.

Anyway...hope everyone's going well with NaNo and other assorted projects! I have yet to write this week's Chrysalis story. Yikes. Oh, and P.S. That picture above is another from the Fremantle Monument. I shared some pics from there a while back in this post, on another stormy day.

Wednesday, 9 November 2011

30,727 for Day 9


Yep, 30,727 is the current word count. I'm 727 words ahead of my goal as of 7:58pm. I may or may not write more this evening. If I get another burst of energy, I will. But considering how exhausted I've been this and last week, I might just take it easy and eat some more Snakes and watch some more NCIS.

Maybe I won't eat more Snakes. Maybe I'll have ice cream. These are the big decisions. So much pressure. ARGH!! Got any advice?

What would you choose? a) Snakes Alive, or b) vanilla ice cream with Ice Magic and slivered almonds?

Tuesday, 8 November 2011

Day 8

I shall not fail in the posting every day-ing-ness! That's why I'm here with my eyeballs about to fall out of my head with tiredness! Just for fun, I thought I would share a relatively short extract from my NaNo work so far. It's unpolished, it's a rough draft...it's NaNo. I know I don't need to explain to any of you! But with all the above in mind, here it is:
My mouth has fallen open.
“Careful, don’t wanna catch flies,” Mack tells me as he settles in the seat diagonally opposite me.
“You.”
“Me.”
“Melinda’s meat.”
He’s still wearing his sunglasses, so I can’t see the look in his eyes. I can imagine it, though. Especially with the sudden furrow I see appear on his brow. It smoothes quickly and I see his eyebrows quirk upward. I get the distinct impression he just rolled his eyes.
“That her name?” he asks idly.
We stare at each other, or at least I stare at him. I can’t tell what he’s staring at. “You do know the sun’s gone down, right?”
“Cheers for the tip.”
That’s all he says before turning to stare out the window on his side. I watch him a moment more, dying to comment on the baseball cap. Then I resume my own survey of the urban countryside.

My word count is 28,276. Tonight I didn't get much done, probably 1500 words? I suck at maths, but basically if you took last night's word count away from this night's, you'd get the difference. And on that note, I need to go and sleep or something terrible may happen (I might fall asleep while typing, for e.g.).

Hope you are all great!! And thanks for all the blog visits!!

P.S. New Chrysalis prompt today...new story must be written. Oh gawd!

Monday, 7 November 2011

Crap, but I'm okay with that

Doesn't quite rhyme, but I'll go with it.

Tonight's writing session got me to 26,696. I've written tomorrow night's quota, which is good since I may not get any writing time at all tomorrow. I might actually take my laptop to work with me so I can get some writing done at lunchtime. Or...I might not. Depends on the mood. But to explain this blog entry's title, I'll say that quite often this stuff I'm writing is crap. There are odd moments of un-crapness, but for the most part I'm writing for the words, not the genius. But I'm not worried. After all, what is revision for if not de-crapifying our writing?

In other news, I finished reading that Jackie Collins book. You can read my review here. You may be shocked by how unscathing the review is, all things considered! I know I was. Anyway, now I am reading this:

Sunday, 6 November 2011

100,000 - 23,482 = 76,518...right?



Day 6 of NaNo is over, and I've written 23,482 words. I'm pretty sure I've written tomorrow's quota already (unless I am making a horrible mistake and my computer's in-built calculator is lying to my FACE!). It's good to have a buffer, but by no means do I feel comfortable just yet. After all, I have another 76,518 words to write in November!

Above is a picture of one of our beaches here in Perth (actually, South Beach in Fremantle), which I took a couple of days ago. Pretty, huh?

Saturday, 5 November 2011

NaNo-Chrysalis crossover



So, Day 5 of NaNoWriMo draws to a close and I've got a word count of 18,038. The number I needed to reach today was 16,666.6 recurring until it gets to 7. As in, 16,666.6666666666667. I think. Or maybe I put one too many 6s in there. Either way, it was something like that, at least according to my Mac's in-built calculator. I've decided to go with that!

I also wrote about 1200 words for the Chrysalis Experiment today, hence the inclusion of the icon above. I wrote it using my novel's characters, and I may be able to use it towards my NaNo word count eventually. For now, it's set aside as a little 'vignette'.

In other news, I enjoyed a post-Halloween Halloween party this evening with some great friends. Haven't had that much fun on Halloween in a long time!

Anyway...may all your Day 5s end on positive notes as mine did, and may each of you glimpse a fluffy bunny or two ('cause man they're cute!).

Friday, 4 November 2011

Day 4 at an end...thank gosh for that!

13,372 words



I don't need to say more than that, do I? But I will. Just a little, don't fret!

It's bedtime and I am in dire need of a good sleep. I was tempted to give up a little bit ago but I decided to stick with it until 10:30 to try and make my goal word count. It's currently 10:21 so I'd consider that a goal well met.

Now...sleeeeeep. (Man, whatever happened to the old rock 'n roller I used to be? Being out till 5am was never a big deal back then!)